If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV? What's the best way to do this?

[d***@gmail.com]

If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV? What's the best way
to do this?

Can you capture in HDV, or must you first caputer in HD?

Thanks!

[Digital Video Solutions]

The Sony HDV camcorders will allow you to output in either HDV or DV through
the 1394 port. It is not necessary to capture in HDV and downsample. Read
the manual it is explained in detail how to set the camcorder to do this.
--
Larry Johnson
Digital Video Solutions
***@digitalvideosolutions.com
http://www.digitalvideosolutions.com

"Serving Boston and New England from our offices in beautiful downtown New
Bedford, Massachusetts!"
877-227-6281 Toll Free Sales Assistance
774-202-3512 Customer Service
508-990-1398 Fax

Post by d***@gmail.com
If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV? What's the best way
to do this?
Can you capture in HDV, or must you first caputer in HD?
Thanks!

[m***@my-deja.com]

Post by Digital Video Solutions
The Sony HDV camcorders will allow you to output in either HDV or DV through
the 1394 port. It is not necessary to capture in HDV and downsample. Read
the manual it is explained in detail how to set the camcorder to do this.

However, the results do seem to be better if you downconvert from HDV
on the computer rather than in the camera. Plus if you're going to a
better output format than DV, you can theoretically get close to 10-bit
4:4:4 SD footage from downconvertedHDV (assuming no serious MPEG-2
compression artifacts).

Mark

[Martin Heffels]

Post by m***@my-deja.com
However, the results do seem to be better if you downconvert from HDV
on the computer rather than in the camera. Plus if you're going to a
better output format than DV, you can theoretically get close to 10-bit
4:4:4 SD footage from downconvertedHDV (assuming no serious MPEG-2
compression artifacts).

But you're making up 0:2:2 to get your 4:4:4!

-m-
--

[m***@my-deja.com]

Post by Martin Heffels
But you're making up 0:2:2 to get your 4:4:4!

?

In 1080i HDV you have 1440x1080 8-bit luminance pixels with 720x540
color values. Scale that down to SD NTSC or PAL and you have
approximately one color value and 10 bits of luminance data per pixel.

Mark

[Martin Heffels]

Post by m***@my-deja.com

Post by Martin Heffels
But you're making up 0:2:2 to get your 4:4:4!

?
In 1080i HDV you have 1440x1080 8-bit luminance

The amount of pixels will depend on the camera you have.

Post by m***@my-deja.com
pixels with 720x540
color values. Scale that down to SD NTSC or PAL and you have
approximately one color value and 10 bits of luminance data per pixel.

Say what? When you scale up, you have to make-up (interpolate)
chroma-samples. HDV is 4:2:2 so sampling down to DV won't make it magically
4:4:4. And your luminance won't go up either from 8 to 10 bits, without
interpolating.

-m-
--

[m***@my-deja.com]

Post by Martin Heffels
The amount of pixels will depend on the camera you have.

No it won't. If it's 1080i HDV it's 1440x1080, period. The camera is
irrelevant, except to the extent that the CCDs in cheaper cameras may
be unable to provide the full resolution to record.

Post by Martin Heffels

Post by m***@my-deja.com
pixels with 720x540
color values. Scale that down to SD NTSC or PAL and you have
approximately one color value and 10 bits of luminance data per pixel.

Say what? When you scale up,

Who is talking about scaling up here? What's so hard to understand
about _SCALING DOWN_ from HD to SD? You do understand that high
definition is higher resolution than standard definition, right? Hence
the 'high definition' in the name?

This is really very, very simple maths: I don't understand why you're
having such a problem with it.

Mark

[Ken Maltby]

Post by m***@my-deja.com

Post by Martin Heffels
The amount of pixels will depend on the camera you have.

No it won't. If it's 1080i HDV it's 1440x1080, period. The camera is
irrelevant, except to the extent that the CCDs in cheaper cameras may
be unable to provide the full resolution to record.

Post by Martin Heffels

Post by m***@my-deja.com
pixels with 720x540
color values. Scale that down to SD NTSC or PAL and you have
approximately one color value and 10 bits of luminance data per pixel.

Say what? When you scale up,

Who is talking about scaling up here? What's so hard to understand
about _SCALING DOWN_ from HD to SD? You do understand that high
definition is higher resolution than standard definition, right? Hence
the 'high definition' in the name?
This is really very, very simple maths: I don't understand why you're
having such a problem with it.
Mark

Scaling down from HD to SD can allow for full main profile with
its normal color space, which is quite good. But- as Martin
mentioned it can't make up additional color space data that was not
in the original, except by interpolation. On some level this will even
work, a little, in terms of some potential for the image, where you are
using a process that can benefit from 4:4:4.

The practical question is still "Is the camera able to output SD with
full data?" I don't see any reason an HDV camera would have any
problem doing so. It is using the same chips to capture the data, it's
just a matter of how much of the data it uses and how it is packaging
the results.

Luck;
Ken

[Frank]

On 19 Aug 2006 17:13:09 -0700, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV?
What's the best way to do this?>,

Post by m***@my-deja.com

Post by Martin Heffels
The amount of pixels will depend on the camera you have.

No it won't. If it's 1080i HDV it's 1440x1080, period. The camera is
irrelevant, except to the extent that the CCDs in cheaper cameras may
be unable to provide the full resolution to record.

That's correct. In 1080i HDV, it's always 1440 x 1080 that's written
to tape, no exceptions, although some camcorders have an imaging
system with less than 1920, or even less than 1440, active pixels per
scan line. A prime example of this would be the Sony HVR-Z1 series,
which has only 960 active pixels per scan line and uses a pixel offset
technology to up this to 1440 before writing to tape.

[Martin Heffels]

Post by Frank
On 19 Aug 2006 17:13:09 -0700, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV?
What's the best way to do this?>,

Post by m***@my-deja.com

Post by Martin Heffels
The amount of pixels will depend on the camera you have.

No it won't. If it's 1080i HDV it's 1440x1080, period. The camera is
irrelevant, except to the extent that the CCDs in cheaper cameras may
be unable to provide the full resolution to record.

That's correct. In 1080i HDV, it's always 1440 x 1080 that's written
to tape, no exceptions, although some camcorders have an imaging
system with less than 1920, or even less than 1440, active pixels per
scan line.

That's right. What goes on tape, dos not always come of the sensor.

-m-
--

[Martin Heffels]

Post by m***@my-deja.com
Who is talking about scaling up here? What's so hard to understand
about _SCALING DOWN_ from HD to SD? You do understand that high
definition is higher resolution than standard definition, right? Hence
the 'high definition' in the name?

Yes, but when scaling down you are not going automagically from 4:2:2 to
4:4:4 colourspace.

-m-
--

[Frank]

On 20 Aug 2006 00:54:24 +0200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV?
What's the best way to do this?>,

Post by Martin Heffels
HDV is 4:2:2

Actually, HDV, whether 720p or 1080i, is 4.2.0, not 4.2.2.

[Martin Heffels]

Post by Frank
Actually, HDV, whether 720p or 1080i, is 4.2.0, not 4.2.2.

I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.
I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.

Phewww, now I have cramp in my fingers
--

[Frank]

On 20 Aug 2006 08:02:49 +0200, in 'rec.video.production',
in article <Re: If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV?
What's the best way to do this?>,

Post by Martin Heffels

Post by Frank
Actually, HDV, whether 720p or 1080i, is 4.2.0, not 4.2.2.

I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.

[repeated content snipped to conserve bandwidth for more important
things like BitTorrent P2P file transfers]

Post by Martin Heffels
Phewww, now I have cramp in my fingers

LOL (I needed that, BTW. It's been a long day here.)

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Frank
On 20 Aug 2006 08:02:49 +0200, in 'rec.video.production',
in article <Re: If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV?
What's the best way to do this?>,

Post by Martin Heffels

Post by Frank
Actually, HDV, whether 720p or 1080i, is 4.2.0, not 4.2.2.

I shall not answer usenetmessages in the middle of the night when my brain
is not working at full-speed.

[repeated content snipped to conserve bandwidth for more important
things like BitTorrent P2P file transfers]

Post by Martin Heffels
Phewww, now I have cramp in my fingers

LOL (I needed that, BTW. It's been a long day here.)

And for my part, I wish I had been able to cut and paste to the
blackboard in grade-school days :-)

[Digital Video Solutions]

HDV downsampled will not be close to 10bit as long as you are editing in
8bit. The picture will be clear just due to the camera itself, but once
downsampled the video is still DV 4:1:1.

Post by m***@my-deja.com

Post by Digital Video Solutions
The Sony HDV camcorders will allow you to output in either HDV or DV through
the 1394 port. It is not necessary to capture in HDV and downsample. Read
the manual it is explained in detail how to set the camcorder to do this.

However, the results do seem to be better if you downconvert from HDV
on the computer rather than in the camera. Plus if you're going to a
better output format than DV, you can theoretically get close to 10-bit
4:4:4 SD footage from downconvertedHDV (assuming no serious MPEG-2
compression artifacts).
Mark

[m***@my-deja.com]

Post by Digital Video Solutions
HDV downsampled will not be close to 10bit as long as you are editing in
8bit.

Uh, yes.

Post by Digital Video Solutions
The picture will be clear just due to the camera itself, but once
downsampled the video is still DV 4:1:1.

Uh, not if you're editing uncompressed or with a better codec, which I
believe was my original point. Certainly HDV downconverted to DVCPRO50
(4:2:2, I believe) looks significantly better than DV footage.

Mark

[Rick Merrill]

Post by d***@gmail.com
If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV? What's the best way
to do this?
Can you capture in HDV, or must you first caputer in HD?
Thanks!

Some Sony HD cameras will capture in HDV and playback in both/either.

[Mr. Tapeguy]

Post by d***@gmail.com
If you shoot in HDV, is it easy to convert to DV? What's the best way
to do this?
Can you capture in HDV, or must you first caputer in HD?
Thanks!

The camcorders I have worked with have a DV out which can export either
way. Some people prefer to do the downconvert in their NLE but I
haven't made a comparison. I have chosen to shoot some stuff in HDV
for which I don't need to HD now but can easily output in DV and
if/when the need for HD arises, the footage is already there.

Craig

http://www.pro-tape.com